sounds like another area to apply some redemptive theology to--God made it all good, we humans messed it up, and only a Christian can live life, use the arts, etc. to its fullest extent. in fact, we have a responsibility to redeem all aspects of life, rescuing them from the dismal failure depravity will make and turning them to their only right end--the glory of God.

praying for wisdom.
i want to do just that.
but do it humbly.
not with an
i'm-moses-come-to-save-the-day;
you-all-are-evil-and-dumb
attitude.

In relation to what Dave said,
with which I agree whole-heartedly,
reverence to God will make Christian theater
powerful.

If we portray Christianity (the person of God, His evident work in creation, His evident redemptive work in our lives, His grace, our salvation, our sanctification) as what it really is and as big as it really is, then the impact will come naturally. It doesn't need to "cater" to what seems enjoyable to the public, it's beautiful and vast and compelling in it's raw form.

for what it's worth, you don't seem to me to be characterized by a come-to-save-the-day attitude.

pride manifests itself in various forms, including fear, doubts, inhibitions and self-consciousness. your very personality becomes an aid to you as you seek to reform Christian theater and its audiences, starting with your own scripts.

at least you're not afraid to place yourself in a position at odds with the mainstream, nor afraid to open your mouth.

which moses was.

how well you see my soul,
not knowing at what you look.

fear.
comes often.
i have seen too many fall,
too many be destroyed.
those i love dearest and best
consumed
in this world of theatre.

i love it.
and hate it.
want to see it used
for our Father.
want Him to direct
these desires,
these ideas.

struggling for words(!)
so i'll stop here.

Clarification...

I think your fear about the industry's dangers and potential consequences is well-founded and do not mean to diminish that kind of healthy fear (nor the feeling of responsibility, nor the graveness of the situation).

But I was commending your apparent willingness to do something about it. Which conveys to me an equally-healthy portion of confidence (trust put in God rather than princes, that is) that God is able to redeem our work and do His good through it.

Interesting place I was in at college last semester. I went to see The Laramie Project that was a production of the theatre department at my school. This is a state school. There were several reasons why I went.

1. My friend was stage manager; she is a Christian. And I had the opportunity to talk to her about the play. She went to Bob Jones for 2 years. In fact I went with her husband to see the play. He also went to Bob Jones with me and was in my society (Ben knows him).


2. Also, two of the cast members were from my church.


3. Finally, I had found myself in a chamber choir with many homosexuals (something I had never had to deal with at Bob Jones). So I felt a strong urge to go to be aware of what they were talking about.

Although, there was a strong underlying message of acceptance of homosexuality, primarily the message of the play was about tolerance. Not only of lifestyle but also of differences between people (race, sex, religion, etc.).

There was a talk back after each performance. The two guys from my church had a wonderful opportunity to say God hates homosexuality. They didn’t mince words, although they were very humble and pointed out their own sin as well.

My question is how far do we go to get our point across? Even though these guys from my church had a good opportunity to spread the Gospel to their cast and to the audience, I was disappointed with what they had to do in portraying these characters.

Can we mix into secular theatre to bring God glory and spread His fame among the people?

jbo.
that's exactly
what i have been praying about.
presenting truth
through "secular" theater
(though all we do is sacred).
i have been/ am praying
fervently.

ps. i'm glad you went.
i would have liked to have seen it.
i have turned down a lesbian role
simply for what i would have to do on stage
to convince people that i was a lesbian.
i may have played it
had the circumstances been different.
but i don't know.

Well, my friends from church played many characters in this play (I'm not sure you are familiar with it). At one point each of them played gay characters (both of them are men).

Neither of them did anything as gay characters "to prove" that they were gay. They didn't have to convince anyone in your words.

This question was brought up in the play. A young man (character) portrayed a gay role and his Christian parents were upset. His excuse was "I portrayed Macbeth last year in high school, and he was a murderer." In other words, if God doesn't approve of murder why can we play murderous characters, but not gay characters.

But I agree with you, one can cross the line.

I was upset because these two men cursed when portraying these characters (just once or twice, but where do you stop?). I think that is going too far. I know Bob Jones emphasizes (sometimes?) or just cuts language. But that is something we face today in theatre. You can't go to a play these days without hearing it. Even motivation is reinvented so silent moments become dirty.

I'll pray with you about this. Just remember that "the LORD, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other" (Deuteronomy 4:39).

P.S.
you are right, about "secular." Nothing we do is secular if we take God's Word to heart (i.e., 1 Cor. 10.31).

The problem with just cutting offensive language:
the un-Biblical philosophy is still present,
and once those objectionable elements are gone,
one is far more likely to accept the philosophy.
Take Harvey, for example.
It was performed here a few years ago.
Great fun.
So I decided to take my little sister
when the community theater back home did Harvey.
I have never been more embarrased in a theater.
The whole thing was a Freudian case-book.
Now that philosophy was still present
when performed at BJ.
It was much harder to detect, however.
Plays like Othello, Merchant of Venice
are very "offensive," so we cut them
to make them acceptable.
But I would argue that cutting destroys the message.
And Merchant has an amazing message.
But we distort it to say: "Oh, look at this bad Jew! He's so greedy; so vengeful."
But that was not Shakespeare's point.
Shylock has learned at our schools.
Learned mercy and kindness of the Christians.
He is merely emulating what he sees in us.
That is far more powerful than: "Bad, Jew!"

Now, I don't know where I stand as far as performing stuff with offensive language...I do know that I am far more concerned with theme and philosophy, for those are what corrupt our thinking. It's not the occassional "dirty" word, but the philosophy that changes the course of our lives.

Thoughts?

That's a very good point about offensive language. I never thought of it quite that way. I was thinking more a long the lines of, if we (Christians) start swearing (in theatre) where will we end up next.

But your point about the theme and philosophy being more harmful than some dirty words is very valid. (Have you read John Milton’s Areopagitica?)

It was fascinating to see how Laramie “spoke.” Remember what I said, that there were essentially two messages. One that said tolerance of differences is good, but there was the subtler message saying homosexuality is good, it is natural, and it is here to stay. That was the more dangerous message, because as Christians we are supposed to be tolerant, just not accepting of sin. So by discussing this play with someone (which I did) it is very difficult to make your point. People immediately assume that we are being intolerant of people, when really it is sin that is the point not tolerance.

It is also difficult because of what the director did -- his spin, as it were. From the program, to the opening, to the talk back, his feelings were clear. But that is an entirely different subject.

I am trying to think of something that ties this all together, it is pretty random stuff. It is so odd. I’ve never had to really think about this. I am not an actor. Thanks for getting me thinking.

no, i've never read areopagitica
thanks for the link.
i'll check it out.

tying things together:
i have found in my years here
that Christians need to be taught to think.
just because we cut some stuff
doesn't mean that it's now good.
like TV Guardian.
what a horrid invention!

the lost know how to powerfully present
their ideas in theater,
because for them,
philosophy, theme
is everything.

for us,
we tack on a few Bible verses.
take out a few bad words.
we're more concerned about things that make us uncomfortable than things that actually change our thinking.
because we don't think.

hmm...
i'm pondering.
praying.
will come back to this later.

I'm sure you want me to be quiet by now, but I have to fervently agree with you about the "TV Guardian. What a horrid invention!" line.

From personal experience, it is horrible. It doesn't work very well, at least not for us; so don't waste your money. Shakespeare was completely destroyed by it; fairer sex, became fairer hugs; and Hellmann’s mayonnaise became just mayonnaise.

Many times it's these offensive words that keep us on our guard. The ideas coming from these people are what we really need to screen. That's why we need to be "mature" Christians “who because of practice have [our] senses trained to discern good and evil” (Hebrews 5:14).

although a bit off the exact current discussion, you may be interested in this recent post of mine--http://www.bensfriends.com/morris/archives/2003/10/14/philosophy_of_drama.html#000508

hi ! Visit website of Teatr off - Christain theatre in Poland + www.teatroff.republika.pl!thx

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